Shakthi Prasad GS 2021-09-27 04:42:13 Hi Every one,
I am working on an interactive programming language named Flourish, which aims to be programmable only in run time. The only available programming style being exploratory programming, I believe it implicitly forces TDD. Even the concept of dependency injection is somewhat inclusive of language design.
https://github.com/FlourishLang/flourish1.5
Please give your thoughts.
Kartik Agaram 2021-09-27 18:32:21 I'm curious what would happen if you removed the prints in your screencast. The results would still show on the right?
Shakthi Prasad GS 2021-09-28 18:40:38 "Perhaps a conditional that's not taken shouldn't show any results for the statements under it?"
Yes. It won't show the results. The highlighted portion of the stale result corresponding to a previous state (when the condition was evaluated to false).
On a separate note, in the above screenshot, you cant change lines 10-11(grayed out) as long as the condition at line 9 is false! You can only edit executing pieces of code. This design decision was taken to prevent ANY mental simulation while coding.
Shakthi Prasad GS 2021-09-28 18:49:01 "I'm curious what would happen if you removed the prints in your screencast. The results would still show on the right?" Currently, it will result in an error. For now, the language faithfully follows imperative syntax to keep things simple.
Shalabh 2021-09-29 06:10:34
You can only edit executing pieces of code. This design decision was taken to prevent > ANY> mental simulation while coding.
Bold and intriguing idea - can't modify dead code - I kinda like it. I'm usually very strongly in favor of avoiding mental simulation, but even I'm not sure if this goes too far š I can see how this enforces TDD.
What if you call the same function twice? Which of the two values will be displayed?
Your mention of dependency injection reminded me of the Newspeak language - have you looked at that?
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-09-29 05:22:31 So Iāve been triggered (in no bad meaning) by the ironic connotations about growth hackers notion in Ivan Reese https://futureofcoding.slack.com/archives/CEXED56UR/p1632872466023400 post. Iāve (https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomascerkasas/, https://github.com/toinbis) been identifying myself professionally as a growth hacker for the past 10 years already. Have to say, growth hackers use ādevsā (shortening of āsoftware developersā) word with same ironic connotations more often than not š
So I have this 4-hours trainings, pretentiously named how to tell a story via web medium, prepared that I run for development+marketing teams being brought together in the same room. It is at the same time attempt to introduce ubiquitous language (in domain-driven-design (DDD) context) for daily communication in marketing+development teams cooperation.
In an attempt to de-mystify some common myths of what growth hackers(marketing communication specialists) actually do and how developers/admins/devopsers/u-name-it could help them do their work better (or at least stop creating huge roadblocks, such as instroducing react&friends in acquisition funnel websites, to give an example) - I would like to propose to an online webinar for FoC community those above mentioned how to tell a story via web medium trainings (free of charge) .
Please put ā if youād be interested in joining this webinar. In case at least 4-5 people would express interest, we could start arrangeāing date&time in a thread, including any special topics youād like to be addressed and included for me to prepare on top of current content.
Ivan Reese 2021-09-29 07:05:21 Thatās a generous offer! I hope some folks here take you up on that.
Ivan Reese 2021-09-29 07:07:55 FWIW, I have a bee in my bonnet when it comes to the juxtaposition of aspirational futures of computation and business dev stuff because of stuff like this. So thatās where my grumpiness about āgrowth hackingā in particular comes from. I think the startup scene and the OG ātools for thoughtā crowd are strange bedfellows, but we certainly can learn from one another and work together to good effect.
š¦ Ivan Reese: I don't like that @notion is using caricatures of Ada Lovelace, Ted Nelson, Alan Kay, and Doug Engelbart to talk about business metrics. Yuck.
Either have them talk about their actual work, use @ivanhzhao & co as characters, orābest āinvent your own and do some worldbuilding.
Andrew F 2021-09-29 07:11:21 Tentatively interested. Currently in early stages of building a small startup, so this could be very timely (non FoC-related for now, sorry).
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-09-29 07:55:45 Ivan Reese totally agree on the caricatures of real people non-related to bussiness being used in marketing communications is seems totally off!
Also agree that the term growth hacking is very commonly misused. Yet it is very successfully coined term in a sense how real world activities correlate to semantic meaning of the term, I should say. Comparably, way bigger problem is with content marketing term. I was once strongly considering to attend a nationwide content marketing conference with a speech deck named ācan you kindly explain me which marketing communications activities are considered not content marketing?ā, but decided not to be a party pooper š
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-09-29 07:56:41 Andrew F - thanks! Great! Letās hope few more interested people come up and we could proceed to scheduling.
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-09-30 17:52:49 Andrew F @Diego Moya Kartik Agaram @Don Abrams Nicolas Decoster - thanks a lot for pressing ā! Letās make this happen! š Am thinking, maybe iād try to squeeze the content into 1.5 hours (sharing key statements before the call here), and them maybe 1.5 hours for Q&A/discussion. 3 hours is a lot of time to book, so if some of you could only make two hours, than weād prioritise the questions of those whoād have to leave earlier, and weād share the summary of rest q&a/discussion later here in slack. So, min 2 - max 3 hours. But to start with, letās pick a date. Iām offering the week after next - kindly please which day(s) seem to suite enough to fit 2 hours in the calendar: https://doodle.com/poll/a9af7dewvzbpcf4r . After weād pick date, we can proceed to time selection. If this week completely does not work for any of you, we can move the week to one later. Looking forward and thanks again!
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-09-30 20:45:35 Iām gmt+3, but I think weāll try to look for something that will suit us both. I can be very flexible in terms of time zone adjustments
Diego Moya 2021-10-01 13:47:40 Quite intrigued by "JamStack is a curse word for marketers & developers"... š¤
I'm eager to know what it's about š
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:00:03 Will elaborate on the curse for marketers during live meeting. For developers - jamstack is a term describing backend architecture - how should the server respond to request - by loading html from disk/cache and serving it statically VS dynamically rendering html response. But in 9/10 cases devs identify it as a ātrendyā way to build frontend. The ultimate problem is that there is a void in frontend architectures naming. Or - a mess in frontend architectures naming. Google https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/rendering-on-the-web defines it as a subset of this image:
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:00:57 Which ^ has mistakes in itself, but is totally uncomprehensable. To fix this void people tend to lean to ājamstackā as an answer.
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:01:40 Frontend wise jamstack is a meaningless term. But it is treated as not being such.
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:02:18 World has no naming framework for frontend architectures that would be wide spread and accurate.
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:03:34 Developers build websites with nuxt/next/gatsby, because they read on blogs āthats a cool trendā, then bussiness comes and says:
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:05:39 You (devs) just convinced us migrate from wordpress to gatsby, because itās trendy jamstack. And we just learned that there are implications for bussiness in here. Left column is our wordpress - suprer great for bussiness and marketers, just not elegant for devs. You instead convinced us to migrate to something cool for you, but totallly not suitable for us. Letās have a conversation about thatā¦
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:06:39 (this topic causes a lot of heat if devs and marketers are in the same room whilst discussing this. I suggest we leave broader discussion for the video call). Also I am a bit opinionated on this, but by no means I want to sound radical or not suggesting to discuss it all).
Tomas Äerkasas 2021-10-01 14:55:51 Last thing to note, that for instance https://motherfuckingwebsite.com this site is also technically considered jamstack according to jamstack term creators. To translate the definition in bit other words, jamstack is āeverything you can deploy on netlifyā. @Diego Moya - hope this at least clarified the direction of thought what the catchy JamStack is a curse word for marketers & developers phrase hides beneath.
